A couple of weeks ago, I was invited by Jane Galloway - founder of Quiet the Hive - to appear on her podcast Inside the Hive. Jane wanted to discuss how I left behind my 20 year corporate career and set up sunday skies.

It was the first time being interviewed about my business. And it was a definite step into my stretch zone after spending so many years advising other people being interviewed, but firmly staying behind the mic myself!

But we had a great chat. We spoke about what made me rethink my career, how I decided on what I was going to do next, how the sunday skies brand came to be, and the advice I would give to anyone thinking about their own next steps.

You can listen to the full interview here or read the full transcript below. It’s 45 minutes long, so perfect listening for your daily walk or you can read with a cuppa during your lunch break.

Thank you to Jane for having me as a guest. You can follow her on Instagram or visit the Quiet the Hive website.

Inside the Hive: Lee Griffith & Jane Galloway in conversation
Recorded 5 November 2020, first broadcast 20 November 2020

Jane Galloway
Hello, welcome to Inside the Hive with me, Jane Galloway, from Quiet the Hive. I'm always fascinated to talk to people who made the leap from a corporate career to treading their own path and Lee Griffith is no exception. I'm so pleased that I finally persuaded her to come and chat with me today. I hope you find the conversation interesting. Have a great listen, and let me know.

Hello, and welcome to from Inside the Hive with me Jane Galloway from Quiet the Hive. I'm delighted, each week to talk to an incredible woman. And this particular woman, I have basically bullied into coming onto the podcast, because she kept saying, not yet, nearly, nearly not yet nearly, and then she had no more excuses so she had to say yes to me and I'm delighted that she did. I know our conversation is going to be a good one. So, Lee Griffith is - sorry it's not an S on the end - Lee Griffith, I knew I’d do that it's the Welsh in me. But Lee is the founder of sunday skies, which has probably the logo I'm most jealous of all the companies and businesses that I know. And she's a business and personal development coach, and I am really looking forward to the conversation that we have, where she can tell me more about what she does, and the journey she took because I think it's an interesting one. But now I will say hello Lee, how are you.

Lee Griffith
Hello, good afternoon, day one of lockdown and I'm smiling. so, that's good.

Jane Galloway
That's, that's a good thing isn't it if you can say you're smiling on day one of lockdown that's pretty good. We had a little chat before we started recording, we were just saying how wonderful the supermarkets are empty we both had to nip out to the supermarkets and have been overjoyed by that.

Lee Griffith
We'll have jinxed it now though.

Jane Galloway
That is the problem. So Lee, tell us a little bit about what it is that you do.

Lee Griffith
So, thank you for the introduction. And yes, you quite rightly have bullied me into this podcast. I spent 20 years behind the scenes encouraging other people to do it I eventually unwillingly agreed to be interviewed. Thank you. So yes, I founded sunday skies, which is a new coaching business which is very new, I only launched it on 1st October and it's a coaching and consultancy business trying to bring the two together to support senior leaders and business owners who really want to up level, their personal profile and their brand and their business.

Jane Galloway
I told you already it sounds amazing. And what a time to launch my goodness 31st of October, so right between two lockdowns in the middle of a very crazy confused world, and, but how fantastic to have gone ahead and done that because I think actually at the moment that personal reflection and development is what a lot of people are looking for.

Lee Griffith
Yeah, in first lockdown was really when I came up with the premise of the business and started setting up and I was, I'm a bit of a perfectionist by heart, and was always waiting, wanted everything lined up in a row before it went live, and just one day thought "sod it", I'm just going to launch it, and it doesn't have to be perfect. And what will be will be. It's not like everyone's going to know me on day one anyway so just get on and do it, and I'm really pleased that I have, because it just allowed me to test and continue to, kind of, pivot and just change and adapt as I learn more about me and business I want it to be and all that kind of stuff.

Jane Galloway
Absolutely, it's almost sort of taking a dose of your own medicine isn't it as you develop as a leader in your new business, you'll be shaping it and working out what you want. So, let's, let's go back a bit because you actually left a role. Quite a stable, steady role would be my, my description of it because we're both NHS, well ex-NHS bods for you. And so, we know that at the moment, particularly it's a, we're very fortunate to be in the NHS I certainly am and, but you have been a comms and PR professionals for 20 years, was all of that in the NHS?

Lee Griffith
Predominantly it's always been public sector based and I started off my PR career at Stansted Airport, and then moved into the NHS and just never really thought it was going to be a lifetime thing but ended up being something that I fell in love with. And I love making a difference. I never wanted to do PR for cornflakes, or something like that, it just had no motivation for me. I wanted to feel like I was connected to making a difference somehow. And the NHS absolutely ticked that box and, and I loved my time there and what it's given to me and how I've developed, but yeah after 20 years it was time to kind of step away from that chapter and do something completely different.

Jane Galloway
How did it feel to move away out of the corporate world, and into your own business, how did that feel for you?

Lee Griffith
Well, when I left the NHS, I had literally no plan. So, setting up sunday skies wasn't on the horizon at that point. And I had, I was in quite a weird headspace I say when I decided to leave. My husband and I went on a very belated honeymoon to Hawaii touring around the islands. And I hadn't realised how unwell I felt, and I'd been doing a stupid commute, two and a half hours each way, getting up at 4.30 in the morning and not getting home till after eight o'clock. I was eating really poorly, not getting much sleep. And just going away, was the first time I really realised the impact that that was having on me personally. I spent three weeks really thinking about what am I going to do next? and is this what I really what want to continue doing? and what would the alternative be? and all that kind of stuff. And I wouldn't say it was a surprise when I went on holiday that I was feeling like that, as for some time I was starting to think about my career, but because that was the first opportunity of thinking space that I had. And I chatted to my husband and realised that whilst I was continuing to do the commute and not have any kind of personal life and all of that. I was never going to be able to explore what I really wanted to do next. So, we came back and within a week I quit my job and had kind of two months’ notice and, and the rest is history.

Jane Galloway
So, when you when you quit. And you said you didn't have sunday skies yet, but did you have an inkling of an idea of what you wanted to do?

Lee Griffith
No, and I had assumed that I was going to go into another job with another company, and I, but I couldn't really work out, is whether the feeling of despondency that I had was that with the place I was working, was that with the sector, you know. Was I kind of over the NHS, was I over the place that I was working at the time, was I over PR and communications? Did I love that profession still or not? And I couldn't put my finger on which it was, so I couldn't really determine whether I wanted to do the same thing but in a different place. Or whether I wanted to do something completely different.

There were a few things I knew that I wanted to still maintain that feeling of making a difference and that feeling of being connected to other people and all of that, but I just, you know, I was sick of the politics, I was sick of the bureaucracy. I just didn't know which it was, so taking the time off, and my husband just said to me, look, just get to a point of boredom at home. Watch as much crappy TV that you want to, eat all the food that you want to, you know, once you're bored, you'll start to figure out what it is that you want to do in life and then, you know. It's been a year and it has been a challenging year with some personal health issues and family health issues and whatnot and then the lockdown happened, and in that time, I realised that actually I just couldn't go back to doing a, working for someone else, and working like a typical Monday to Friday nine to five - although in the type of role I was in and the level of seniority level it wasn't just a nine to five, Monday to Friday. I just couldn't do it and I knew I needed something that gave me that flexibility in my life and work so that's when I thought, well, what can I do for myself, that will get the best of what I want to do.

Jane Galloway
It's amazing. So, it’s really interesting as I speak a lot about how when people can understand what that purpose is or their values are, it makes it much easier to say yes to things and no to things, and to sort of know what your true north is and its really useful guide to help you make decisions. And, if you know what your purpose is, then you've got something to aim towards. You obviously still had really strong values and a clearly developed sense of what you wanted to do and how you wanted to make a difference, but did it feel really scary sort of going, just letting go, I suppose, letting go and just saying goodbye to one thing without really knowing what you're doing. Did it feel like you were taking a big leap, or actually, by that point, did you feel like there was no other choice for you really?

Lee Griffith
Yeah, I think it was, it was the latter and people were saying to me at the time, "Oh my goodness. You're so brave, it's such a courageous thing to do" and I didn't feel any of those things. If anything, I'm probably being a bit stupid, walking away as you say from a secure job, you know, in a secure sector and good pay and all that kind of stuff. But I just thought, you know what, this is not bringing me joy. If I haven't got joy out of it, I don’t think I've given my best back to the role either and I didn't think that was the right thing for people I worked with, or, you know, the communities that we served. Yeah, I needed to find that joy again.

Jane Galloway
I think that's so right actually knowing that you can derive joy from what you're doing is so important because actually, it gives you enormous amounts of boundless energy if what you're doing gives you joy on the days when you're knackered you feel you still feel that energy because you're still connected to the joy and the role that you do. Fantastic. So, what, what do you think, how does your life, differ now to then? So, I know it's not even been a year yet but in terms of your two different career lives, what feels different for you?

Lee Griffith
I think the biggest thing now is I've got that autonomy and ownership, that, you know, even though I was a director in my past life, as I call it, you still didn't really have control over what you did, or what you were able to influence or what you said yes to and all of that kind of stuff. And whereas now it is completely up to me. I can choose who I want to work with, when I work, how I work and all of that which is brilliant and what I need at this stage. I think the other thing that I get from this role that I felt I lost in my past life was that personal connection. So, now working with clients, even between sessions you see that incremental difference coaching can have on them and how they grow, whether it's in their confidence or in the actions that they've taken themselves. You get that immediate feedback and a sense of "yes, it's making a difference". That was desperately why I loved working in the NHS and in public service, was that I wanted to feel like I was making a difference, but it was far less tangible to see. You would be in meetings and you'd be having these conversations and sometimes I would walk out of it and be thinking, we haven't really talked about patients or staff or anything that actually really matters. And I know that was really demoralising for someone who wants to see that difference. I think those would be the two main things in changing roles.

Jane Galloway
I think it's, it's funny, isn't it because people think I think quite often when you're at the start of your career journey and you look up what you can see and you think all those people have kind of got it made, and they're making decisions, and they're delegating, and they're driving in the way that they want to, and actually quite often that the further up you get that the less autonomy you have in the decisions you make. And I think that is a huge surprise to people, especially when you've spent a long time, sort of trying to carve out a career that will get you to the top of that ladder. You can then be quite surprised that it's still not what you were really hoping for.

Lee Griffith
Yeah, absolutely. And I would be the first to admit I was ambitious. When I first joined the NHS, I wanted to be a director by time I was in my early 30s. But now I think why did I want to be that, and it was because I wanted to feel like I had ownership and direct the, you know, what I thought was the right way and all of that kind of stuff. And now I just look back and think that really wasn't the be all and end all and you really didn't have the power, or the influence that you think you have.

Jane Galloway
Sadly not, it'd be nice if it were the case wouldn't it, but no, sadly not. So, tell us a little bit more than, you were lying on - I'm picturing you lying on the beach in the sunshine, enjoying a cocktail of some sort - and thinking about what it is that you would do. At what point did sunday skies pop into your head? When did that first sort of take seed as an actual thing? And did you have the name first or did you have the business first?

Lee Griffith
I had the business idea first. So, it wasn't on the holiday that I had the idea of the business, as I say, I had that time where I just kind of got to the point of boredom and I literally had watched everything on Netflix and read all the books that I'd had to read, and I started to think what am I going to do now? What am I going to be doing next?

I made a bit of a list of all the things that I loved about my previous roles and all the things that I thought I was good at, and all the things that other people had told me were my key skills and the things that I suppose I found interesting in my personal life. I did lots of different mind maps, and then try to overlay them see whether there were any common themes and anything that sparked an idea of what I could do next and one of the things that really, I really enjoyed in my past career was when I was working with individuals on their leadership journeys and seeing people who were perhaps brilliant operational managers that were then moved into more senior roles but hadn't been developed and didn't really have an understanding of the broader expectations of them as a leader, and - with my kind of background of comms and engagement - they didn't really know how to connect with their staff, how to work with their communities, how to network and influence other people. I've you know worked with quite a few people like that in my career. They previously thought what I did was fluffy stuff and writing the newsletter for the staff briefings, so to actually sit down with them and find out what their personal vision was and what they saw for the organisation, what their true self was.

Jane Galloway
This is the point at which my internet connection decided to go decidedly flaky, so we lose Lee for a couple of seconds, but I try and pick up the conversation as quickly as I can. When we come back, bear with...

Sorry, my internet connection went all weirdly and then it just went. See this is, this is the bit, which I can edit out and start again that's fine. So, Lee and I were having a conversation earlier about editing and things and I said I don't normally, I do it in one fell swoop but this is one where we'll have to add it up a bit where my internet signal goes really in the middle. I wonder whether that's children downstairs playing on games I'm really sorry about that.

Lee Griffith
That's alright.

Jane Galloway
So, I'm going to pick up on one of the things I heard you saying before I disappeared into the ether somewhere. So, I'm curious about the connection between the PR and the comms, and the coaching and development. So, do you bring those together very much in thinking about what your, what your brand is, what your business stands for, how you put yourself out there through your business? Is that where the link comes for you?

Lee Griffith
Yeah. I'd say I have almost two buckets of people that I work with. So, one is the leadership side; people who have, you know, great operational experience moving into that more senior leadership role, and just don't have the confidence or the knowledge or the skills - because they've not been trained in that, which is perfectly fine - but helping them to really be stepping into that role of the whole leader that they need to be and to build those skills and how they network with others, how they build that connection and how they tell their own story in their own way. So, it doesn't feel very trite or corporate and all of that.

And then on the other side, working with small businesses and business owners, who perhaps spend all of their time working in the business and not enough time working on the business. So, haven't quite honed what their niche is, don't really know how to connect with their customers, don't really know how to, you know, position the products that they've got and all of that kind of stuff. So, yeah, using coaching conversations, but being able, I suppose, to use my kind of experience, I can ask perhaps different types of questions than another coach might, just because I understand some of the things that they're striving for.

Jane Galloway
I love that nuance between working in the business, working on the business, I've not thought about that sort of split before that's really interesting. And, so, there's two strands aren't there, one about thinking about how you support and develop people to step up into a new role. And I think that absolutely, i mean my experiences is almost all NHS, so I've been in the NHS for 21 years so the majority of my working career - in fact, before that it was Habitat so I don't really know if that even, even counts - And I think within the NHS we're not very good at developing people to step up. We see potential in people, and we promote them. And then we wonder why they flounder, because quite often what we do sometimes is promote an incredibly good experienced nurse into a role of more authority or leadership, but without giving them the skills that will support them in that role, and the same - you talked about operational managers - it's the same you know you see really good service managers, but we don't help them to take the step up into that sort of general management approach when they get there. I think we do that really badly and we wonder why people either don't live up to their potential or do a job not as well when they've done a brilliant job before why are they not doing it as well. I think it's because we don't take the time to understand what we need to do to support them into that next step. It's almost like you train them. You get you get trained to a certain point, and then you move on. And then you have to learn how to do that job rather than getting people ready to make that step. So that's kind of the one strand and then the other strand is around people who are entrepreneurs who are running their own business and how do they work on their business, and not just in their business. I think it's really really valuable actually.

Lee Griffith
And there's a lot of synergy between the two because at the end of the day it's helping that individual build their own confidence in their self and the story that they are trying to tell other people, and so it doesn't really matter what type of business you're doing, or whether you are a one man band, or you've run a multi-million pound organisation. You are a leader, and therefore, you know you need to develop some of those, perhaps what are seen as softer skills,

Jane Galloway
So how would someone know that they would benefit from working with you? So, what would you notice in yourself, that might be a trigger to think, actually working with someone like Lee from sunday skies would be a really valuable investment?

Lee Griffith
So often, people don't recognise it, and if you look at organisations, it could be their boss or the chairman who might say "I think you need to work a little bit more your people skills, or you need to be out a bit more representing the organisation externally" and they'll say stuff like that, and as an individual, you might be thinking, oh my god, what does that mean, what should I be doing. And it's at that point that working with someone like me, I can map out what that might look like and what might feel natural to them and what skills they might need to develop so that they feel a bit more relaxed and at ease doing that. Or it could be someone that perhaps is joining in their first senior leadership role or joining a new organisation and they're getting in that mindset of 'how do I transition into this new role and make an impact, make the right connections? Make the journey that I want to go on with this organisation? How can I get in that headspace before I start, and in that first hundred days of me being there, what's that going to look like? One of my programmes is specifically working with people who are stepping into that senior leadership role to get them in the right headspace so that they make an impact on them before they start the job, far less when they're in it.

Jane Galloway
Brilliant. That's amazing. And then for entrepreneurs or people who are running their own business, what would be some of the, I guess what sort of things would you notice if suddenly you might realise, you're spending more time being in the work than actually working on your business? What might you notice, what might be the things that you think I'm actually lacking this or haven't focused on that or what sort of things like those?

Lee Griffith
Some of the common issues that I'm working with people on is that they're not managing their time, and they're spending all their time doing stuff for the business. So it could be that they're working with clients or customers, or whoever their base is and behind the scenes, you know, the typical kind of swan on the water but behind the scenes they're panicking that they're not on top of anything, and they've got an ambition, they want to expand and make more money and get more income and they just don't even know where to start, because they've never marketed their business, they don't know how to dedicate that time into promoting it or building the connections or anything like that. It's usually people who really want to step up where their business is and move it to that next level.

Jane Galloway
It's funny, isn't it so when you think about things like that and about service-to-service help - so I had on the podcast last season, a woman called Emma Boatman who runs a virtual PA company, she's fantastic. And we were talking about what she really does, what the nub of what she does is she gives people their time back. And actually, sometimes we forget to invest in ourselves, because it feels like, either it feels like a big monetary investment, or it feels like a lot of time to invest and quite often - and I think specifically as women - it feels like it should be a very low priority because actually it's something for us, it feels indulgent, it feels something that actually we should be sorting out everyone else's priorities first, and then we can focus on us if we've got enough time and energy left over. But actually, if you flip it. And if you do spend time focusing on yourself and your own development and how you want your business to land and what you want that to look like. It makes things easier in the long run, and it gives you an extra set of skills, an extra level of energy, helps you derive more joy. And for me, it sounds like that's exactly what you're providing is that capacity for headspace and time and to give people a better platform to jump almost.

Lee Griffith
And a lot of times, or one of the most frequent things that I'm facing with people that I'm working with, is it could be as simple as that they've launched their business, but they've never really thought about who their ideal client is - so who are they aiming at, who are they talking to, in everything that they are doing. And so, we can spend quite a bit of time just working on what's their niche and how do their products meet that niche and how nichey can you be because it can be massive and could be too big a pool that you're trying to fish in; so how can you make that pool as small as possible so that your ideal customer comes and finds you. And in doing that, and identifying who their ideal client is, just opens up this whole new world of opportunities to them in how they market themselves, how they set up their products and their service offering or whatever it might be, how they structure their business. So, there is a whole load of business benefits just from one simple conversation.

Jane Galloway
And I'm imagining that you will be able to speak about this with authority, not just because you are a trained coach, not just because you've got 20 years of PR and communications experience, but because you have set up your own business and you have been through this process yourself. You probably self-coached yourself through the same conversations as part of sunday skies.

Lee Griffith
Yeah, absolutely. Even I, at the beginning, thought I had my niche and then I niched down and niched down and really homed in on that. And even now I still think there's probably scope that I could go one level further and that's part of my learning and my journey as the business develops.

Jane Galloway
What do you think some of the more challenging parts of setting up your own business has been? Where have you got stuck, or what has surprised you that you've thought would be a doddle, or is there anything like that?

Lee Griffith
I mean, for sure there's been a whole load of stuff that now I have to do for myself that in the past life, I would have teams doing for me. They'd probably laugh at my little efforts to try and do stuff. But actually, I found it hugely enlightening and enjoyable, I'm learning new skills, every day and things like going to - I met - my accountant this week and was trained on my bookkeeping software which, oh my god, finance meetings in my past life I would have done anything to avoid because I'm not a numbers person. But I sat at home watching TV, logging all my expenses and everything and I loved it.

Jane Galloway
Amazing. It's funny how much stuff you have to become comfortable, very quickly, especially if you are a one-woman band. So, you know, from registering a business name to setting up a website, designing your website, learning how to record podcasts and put those out, learning about how to do Instagram, learning about sales, learning marketing, learning about log keeping bookkeeping, finances, and you don't realise how much there is, until you start doing it, and you don't realise how little you know until you start trying to do some stuff.

Lee Griffith
I mean I've been fortunate that I've been part of a really great, well a couple of great, networks and people who have been in similar situations. You and I are in one. So, I've been able to just put out the odd feeler here and there when I'm thinking, I don't even know where to start, or what have you guys done and that's been great. And for me, being able to feel part of a community when you work on your own is been really important and, again something I didn't want to lose.

I think one of my biggest challenges, which you alluded to at the beginning of the podcast is I've spent 20 years behind the scenes advising other people on how to themselves, how to do interviews, being in front of the camera. I'm having to do that for myself now, and I'm not someone who likes to be the centre of attention and you really stretched me out of my comfort zone. I text one of my friends who I used to work with - she was always my go to person do interviews and any photoshoots and stuff - I text her when I had the photoshoot for my website and said I am so sorry for the torture I've put you through over the last seven years, I now understand! She loved it; it was like revenge for her.

Jane Galloway
I love that. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it so I feel really happy that you push yourself out of your comfort zone because that's what I teach my clients to do is how to get out your comfort zone, but actually I have to remind myself to do it as well, because you have to be able to do these things in order to be authentic, but it's quite terrifying doing it sometimes.

Lee Griffith
I have to try to challenge myself in setting up a new business. I never thought I was going to be owning my own business and it was never in my life plan and that's stepping out of my comfort zone. And I want to say yes to more opportunities, because I think life is so short, and I'd hate to be at a point where I look back and think "I wish I had done that'.

Jane Galloway
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There is something about remembering that when you're making decisions, when you're saying your yeses or your nos. Actually, is it something that I'm going to look back on and think if only. Really, really important to reflect on it. So, I just want to ask you why sunday skies? Where did the name come from?

Lee Griffith
It's a bit of a random one, but I was playing around with loads of names because I didn't want to use my own name, I didn't want to be the centre of attention, it isn't about me. So, I didn't want my name, and I didn't want anything that was too corporate, nor did I want something that sounded airy fairy that corporate organisations wouldn't want to work with me. And so, I was playing around with different things, and two completely unrelated words came together. Sunday, for me, is the day of the week where you reflect on the week that's been, and you reset yourself for the week ahead. I suppose, coaching in a sense, is how do you look forward and plan but using your experiences in the past to, kind of, and to learn from really so there was a synergy there for me. And then the skies, and I've always had my part of epiphany moments usually - as you say - with a cocktail in my hand, sat on a sun lounger. But just looking up at the sky I just think there's something so beautiful about the vastness and how infinite it is and the art of the possible. And, yeah, I felt that the name to me, just reflected that sense of aspiration and anything's possible and look into the future.

Jane Galloway
I love that. And I think it's such an appealing name it just draws you in. It feels very it's clever with the alliteration and the image it portrays and the sense of feeling it gives you, i think is just lovely. I think it's just so fab. And look at Lee's logo as well because it's just beautiful that sort of wash of blue. And we were talking about, before we went on, it's a circle, it's got sort of a watercolour blue colour in it. And you were saying about how you love the circle as well.

Lee Griffith
Yeah, so the circle is a symbol for infinity, and the logo wasn't designed with that in mind, but on reflection when I looked at it and thought the circle being in the middle of the name was just perfect because it absolutely ties in with the name and that sense of anything's possible.

Jane Galloway
Yeah, it's beautiful. I love it. So, what's next for sunday skies?

Lee Griffith
Well, I think I've only just got started. So, I just want to build on where I've got to, and, and I need to promote the business and, feel like I'm developing, that the company is developing, and that I am able to feel like I can say yes, I'm making a difference to people's lives. I haven't got any grand plans of pushing myself out of my comfort zone. I just want to make the most of the business, and I know it's a crazy time at the minute with covid and so many businesses and people are struggling out there and actually I think that there are opportunities with the types of services that I offer because people will be looking to set up their own businesses and needing that support, or they might be moving into new roles. I think that actually there isn't a better time than now for me to be focusing on my own business.

Jane Galloway
It feels strange doesn't it to be focusing on a business, during lockdown, when so many people are actually facing huge difficulties. But it doesn't mean that the need for the service isn't still there, and it just means that if you stop, you're depriving people who would benefit from your service from getting it. It's a thing I've really wrangled with over the past few months, and it's an interesting thing to explore, I think. And so, I think a lot of my audience either have their own side hustle, or have started their own business, or are thinking about moving into that area. So, for anyone who is listening to you thinking oh my goodness I need that epiphany on a holiday somewhere where I just come back and handed my notice, and for anyone who is thinking about how you make that shift from employment to entrepreneurship. What advice would you give people do you think?

Lee Griffith
I recognise that I am very lucky that I was just able to do a clean break in that sense and that probably isn't the most natural route for people, and as you say they develop a side hustle or whatnot. I don't regret it for a minute. That is how I've done it, and I think it was the best decision, and this business wouldn't have been born out of anything if I hadn't just stopped one thing, taking that break and then concentrated on what was next.

I've had people ask me this before in terms of what would you say to anyone else who's looking to make a change or unhappy with where they are in their kind of current job. And I would say, ask yourself, what would need to happen for you to be satisfied with that situation, and then think of what the alternative option could be, and then focus in on which of those scenarios brings you the most joy and go with that.

Jane Galloway
Love that. And I love the fact that you spent so much time thinking about what your strengths were, what you heard from other people, where your interest lay, what brought you joy in a workspace, what you wanted from that and actually doing some of that thinking is, is really important. It's hard work to make a decision like that. So, you may as well invest the time and do it properly. I think that's really good advice to be thinking about the options and asking yourself some of the trickier questions. But I love hearing that you haven't regretted it once.

Lee Griffith
No, no, it's by far the best decision that I've made, and going back to what we were talking about before, that sense of, you know, life is too short. I was listening to a podcast earlier this week with Kikki K founder and she was saying that one of her 100 dreams is that she's going to live till she is 120 years old. And for her that still isn't long enough to achieve everything that she wants to achieve. And that sense of, you just got to make the most of any opportunity and never feel like you have missed some time or if you were to look back and then you've regretted that you haven't taken it an action when you had the opportunity to do it.

Jane Galloway
Absolutely, gosh that is such a valuable point. Lee, I think that that feels like a really, really good point to leave people thinking about. So, while they're dwelling on that and thinking what they can do to make the most of their short and important life. How can people get hold of you if they want to work with you or find out more about what you do what's the best way for people to find you.

Lee Griffith
They can visit my website which is www.sundayskies.com. And I'm on all good social media platforms as sunday skies. I'm on Instagram and Twitter as Lee Griffith as well so you can look me up either way.

Jane Galloway
Perfect. We'll drop all that information in the show notes so people can easily find you. I'm so grateful to you for leaping out of your comfort zone slightly and putting yourself centre stage for doing this, I really appreciate it. It's been lovely chatting to you, and I just think that there are great things in store for sunday skies. I think it's just such a beautiful concept to help people take that step up into that potential, I think is just wonderful. So, thank you for what you're doing and thank you for taking the time out to speak with me today.

Lee Griffith
Thank you.

Jane Galloway
And we'll catch up soon, thanks Lee.